> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Is it okay to read along while listening?
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ezpar –

I’m currently studying from the NPCR, now on volume 2. I found a college class to be not worth the
time & money, but now I’m finding my listening skills perhaps lagging behind, or at least not
where I want them to be.

When I listen to the dialogues from the CD’s, I can follow very easily if I read along (with only
characters, no pinyin), usually on the first try granted I am at least vaguely familiar with most
of the vocab. However, once I take the text away, I have a lot of trouble unless I’ve already
read/listened to it several times and basically know what is being said.

Is something to be concerned about? I assume it’s fairly normal to be a better listener with text,
but should my listening skills be close behind?

Also, what would you guys recommend to improve listening skills? I’m not quite ready yet, but
sometime within the next few weeks or months I hope to get a conversational partner, either in
“real life” or through Skype. I expect that will do a lot for both my speaking and listening
skills, but is there anything outside of that that could be good?

Thanks!

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roddy –

Try doing a few other things before you listen with the text. Ie:
Listen once to pick out any vocab that you already know – stuff you are confident of, where you
can say ‘ok, that guy just said “post a letter”‘.
Once you’ve got that, take a guess at what the general topic of the piece is and listen again
trying to fill in the blanks – ie you hear someone talking about going somewhere, but you’re not
sure where. But given the above, you guess it is ‘post office’.
Now listen again with the text, or maybe read it and then listen again.

Listening with the text won’t necessarily do you any harm, but you’ll bring your listening up to
speed much faster if you force yourself to listen and only listen at first, and the trick to
making that less painful is to set yourself meaningful aims and objectives for listening, rather
than just ‘try to understand’. If you are working with a textbook that sets questions for the
piece, try reading through the questions first and then answering them – that purpose for
listening is key.

imron –

Quote:

Also, what would you guys recommend to improve listening skills?

You might be interested in some of the suggestions in this thread.

wrbt –

… and don’t worry, almost everyone who does college courses in the West or self-study through
college textbooks has the same problems with listening comprehension lagging.

fredrik_w –

ezpar, I have the same problem as you. Listening with text makes a big difference compared
listening without text. I feel relieved that other than me have the same problem

This is what I do: Right now Im using the dialogs in the last modules of FSI. I listen to the
dialog without text and try to understand as much as possible (as Roddy decribed). After
three-four attemts, I cant understand more without the text. Then I listen to the dialog with text
a few times more and at the same time pick out new vocabulary. After learning the new words, I
listen between 15-20 more rounds (with and without text). I also use the pause button alot and
shadow each sentence. Slowly, this method seems to work and improve my listening comprehension. I
think you need to flush your ears and brain with a much comprehensible input as possible.

calibre2001 –

If there’s a place with plenty of chinese people, go and hang out there. And eavesdrop.

For some reason, it’s easier to listen and understand people in real life. I find it much easier
to absorb the words and phrasings this way compared to audio tapes, tv shows etc

renzhe –

I have to say that the NPCR DVDs are unexpectedly difficult for me to follow, especially if I try
to understand every single word.

Scoobyqueen –

In addition to what Roddy said on filling the blancs, try to detect which words in the syntax
should logically go where – eg time, place and verbs. Then you lean the pattern which means that
you brain will pick out names of people and place names easier and also which is a verb. you
should then guess what the sentence should be and then check if you were correct. You will find
that the frustration element of finding out you SHOULD have known what this meant is valuable as a
learning tool because you are unlikely to forget it again.

Also, you should separate reading and listening at first because they are two different skills.
Especially you will not practice listening to tones using this approach is my opinion.

Someone here mentioned that a teacher at Beida continually let the students listen to an audio
clip going through it again and again until the students understood it. That student said his
listening skills improved significantly and after three months the differenence was noticeable.

It is normal to feel the way you do.

tooironic –

Like other posters have said, don’t worry about your listening skills lagging behind. Let me tell
you EVERY single Chinese learner finds listening skills the hardest to develop and improve.

imron –

Quote:

Let me tell you EVERY single Chinese learner finds listening skills the hardest to develop and
improve.

Sorry, but I find listening the easiest skill to develop and improve.

For me, developing and improving writing is what I would consider the hardest, and by this I don’t
mean being able to physically write characters, but rather, being able to write decent length
passages/articles.

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  > Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
punctuation mark “——”
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aboooot –

Dear friends,

what does this sign of punctuation “——” mean in Chinese?
Is it like “:”?
In this sentence
另外，由于关注和参与方面众多——政府、业主、设计、科研、监理、施工�
��包、各专业分包、材料及产品厂家等等，使得国家体育场工程上下游关系�
�互牵连影响、错综复杂。这都对国家体育场的项目设计组织和管理提出了严
峻挑战和要求
is the list that follows “——” the list of 关注和参与的方面?

Does it mean that
the numerous aspects of interest concerned such as the government, the propietors, the design, the
scientific research, the control, the main contractor, 各专业分包 (I don’t know the meaning),
the materials and the products factories made the vertical relationships of the National Stadium
influence each other and intricated?

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monto –

Words after “——” explains or modifies the words before it.
So the function sometimes look like “, that is,” or “i. e.” and sometimes just like remarks.

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  > Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Anyone Taken the HSK Advanced
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smalldog –

Well, I took the HSK advanced last Saturday here in Singapore. I’m not sure why the test date is 2
weeks before the date in China — maybe it’s the same exam so I’d better not give too much away.

Just about everyone else taking the test were Singaporean Chinese. They were surprised to see me
and were asking “Are you a foreigner? Why are you taking this test?” and I was similarly asking
“Are you Chinese? Why are you taking this test?” It turns out they were taking an adult Mandarin
course and were required to take the HSK advanced as part of the course. It was a bit unnerving to
be taking the test in a room full of native Chinese speakers, especially during the speaking
section, even if their native dialect was Hokkien and they were not too literate in Chinese.

The test itself was much more difficult than I expected. I took the intermediate HSK in 2001 and
got a level 7 and, although I haven’t really studied since then, I use Mandarin both at home and
work so I expected to be able to do ok without preparation. I just about coped with the listening
and reading but the rest was a disaster. I’m sure I failed the writing and speaking as the topics
were just inane and I couldn’t bring any substance into my answers — I think the technique here
is to memorise some “good” passages and work them into your answer.

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anonymoose –

Just took the HSK advanced for the first time today. It was pretty much as expected, but I think I
did much better on the reading section than the writing, so I don’t really know how my marks are
going to come out overall, or if I’ll even pass, but I guess I’ll find out eventually…

One thing that did surprise me though, is that in the 朗读 section, the difficult characters are
accompanied by pinyin transcriptions. The mock papers I have from BLCU don’t have this, so I was
surprised to see it in the exam. To some extent I think this defeats the purpose, right? I mean,
where is the challenge if the difficult parts are transcribed? For anyone who’s curious, the three
transcribed characters were 巍, 馨 and 沱.

roddy –

Those will be characters considered to be so rare that an HSK student isn’t expected to know them,
hence they give you the transcription. The difficult ones are the ones you’re meant to know, but
don’t

anonymoose –

Well, apart from those three characters I mentioned, all the others were pretty easy. There
weren’t any I didn’t know (unlike on the mock papers I have which contain many, and no
transcription), and I think any advanced learner should know 馨 since it is used in 温馨 which
isn’t that uncommon a word, and I would have guessed 巍 also (I seem to recall there was a thread
on here about this character before). Only 沱 would have got me. I don’t know what I’d have said,
but possibly got it right anyway (except for tone) since I’d have guessed it has the same
pronunciation as 驼 in 骆驼 or 鸵 in 鸵鸟.

ChouDoufu –

I’m preparing to take the test (Advanced) next month. It will be my first HSK and thus a trial by
fire. I’m taking some classes to help me though. I haven’t read through all of this thread yet, so
I might repeat something that someone said before. Sorry.

What I’ve learned so far about the HSK accords with my instincts of about the test: it’s more a
test about how to take the HSK that also requires a good vocabulary level and grammar knowledge.

I’m been trying to work on strategies to take the test. Here’s what I’ve come up with so far:

Writing: I have a good foundation in writing, but everything my teacher has taught about the
writing section make me realize that if I had taken the writing test with my original mentality I
would have done pretty poorly. The essay for the HSK is about form and not about content. The
graders can’t grade you on how brilliant your essay is (even if you SOLVE world hunger); they
grade on your ability to use language. Tone of your essay does matter: Chinese graders don’t like
to see negative essays and don’t like criticism. They tend to have conservative views about many
social issues. If your essay conflicts with their views, it won’t receive as good a grade. I’m
currently learning how to answer the different types of questions that are asked–it is sort of
like learning how to write essays again, but for the HSK these essays need to be simple in
structure (this pleases graders who have to sit for days reading essay after essay, many of which
are written in broken Chinese), and in content. Using chengyu (and suyu) effectively adds to your
grade, as does using complex sentence structures.

Speaking: Except for the 朗读 section this is actually the same as writing, in that you are
answering a question (hopefully by creating an outline along the same steps as you would in the
writing section). Instead of writing, though, you speak. There are some pitfalls that can be
avoided here though. Keep the pace of the initroduction, langdu and question answers the same. No
matter what speed you normally speak, it’s best to have a deliberate measured speed of 90wpm or
so. It’s especially bad to read the intro and langdu section quickly and follow it up with slow
answers. You’ll end up competing with yourself, getting good marks for an accurate quick 朗读
and poor marks for being slow in the later sections. Learn how to use pauses. If you use pauses at
the proper points in sentences, you can use the time to think about what you’re doing next. If
your pauses come erratically at innappropriate times, then it shows a lack of fluidity. speak
loudly: if the teacher can’t hear you, you’ll do poorly; speaking loudly also keeps you from
focusing on the other people in the room.

Reading:　This will require much practice. It’s much more about skim and find. After looking at
the questions and answers one must skim through the passages. This section seems very similar to
the SAT tests in the US (at least when I took it). With enough practice one could really improve
their grade on this in my opinion. [I'm welcome to more strategies in this section.]

Zonghe: grammar, grammar, grammar, 搭配、搭配、搭配. From my look at 综合 it really
seems to be about those two things, grammar and 搭配. IN the find the mistake section, it seems
like understanding what grammatical structures are in the sentence is important. If you know the
pattern being used, then you can analyze whether it’s being used correctly. In the construct the
sentence section, the grammar patterns used give you an indication of how to order the sentence.
fill in the blanks is all about how words are used and differentiating words with similar
meanings. learning 搭配 seems like it would be pretty helpful.

Listening comprehension: This one worries me the most. Question for those who have taken the test.
Are the recordings played really garbled with background noise intermixed? I’ve been told by
Chinese teachers (including one who used to –and may still– create questions for the HSK test)
that even a Chinese person would need to take notes in order to answer all the questions
correctly. What notes should one take was my question. I didn’t get a good response (which is why
i’ll be looking for another class for this section). My gut feeling is that there are some
patterns that are occasionally used that help in answering questions. I was also told that it’s
best to read the answers ahead of time to understand their meaning. My current experience with the
questions is: I understand pretty much everything they say, but when it comes time to answer
questions, I have no memory of the particular details. I’d imagine that doing spoken translation
on the fly would be really really helpful for this test. Any suggestions here would be extremely
appreciated.

roddy –

On reading – I agree it’s all about the skimming and scanning. However you can’t skim, find an
answer and then assume you’re done. I had one question, can’t remember if it was a practice paper
or the actual exam where it was something like “When did John arrive”. Somewhere in the text was
‘he started the 10 hour journey at 5pm’ so you have your answer. Except somewhere else is ‘the
train was delayed for two hours . . .’

Not sure if that’s exactly what it was, but the key is that you may need to pick up info from more
than one place. What I try to do for this, and you’re welcome to try it at your own risk, is to
very quickly skim the piece to see what it’s about and where the general chunks of info are – ok,
first paragraph is talking about the company . . ok, second is how he started it . . .third is the
takeover . . – so that when you come to read the questions you know where to home in on.

On listening – info I would try to jot down or recall in some way would be any numbers (God, they
love their numbers), dates, times, and relationships (who is whose mother-in-law type stuff). I do
not recommend you try to translate anything into English in your head as practice, just get used
to doing input, processing and output all in Chinese. If you develop a translation habit (I’ve got
one) you’ll waste time, miss stuff, get flustered. If you want to do something similar, try
listening something and then quickly rephrasing it into different Chinese.

ChouDoufu –

Thanks for your comments Roddy.

When I mentioned spoken translation, it was just because they have to understand long speeches and
paragraphs while listening to someone speak all while taking notes. I don’t plan on translating
during listening, it’s hard enough just listening in my opinion!!

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